Object-X
Aug 26, 05:44 PM
Anyone know of benchmarks comparing the core duo with the core 2 duo?
ctachme
Jul 27, 10:50 AM
MBPs the end of august? I START school in the end of august.
ughghghghghghg
Me too. I'm just going to hang onto my aging iBook G4 until they come out. I really would kick myself if I bought a MacBook Pro now so close to them being updated. I'm just hoping I can order soon, and then they will arrive at the end of August... just in time for school. *crosses fingers*
ughghghghghghg
Me too. I'm just going to hang onto my aging iBook G4 until they come out. I really would kick myself if I bought a MacBook Pro now so close to them being updated. I'm just hoping I can order soon, and then they will arrive at the end of August... just in time for school. *crosses fingers*
RebootD
Mar 31, 04:42 PM
Doesn't mean he's not right on this one.
Who didn't see this coming? They differentiated themselves, gained enough marketshare and now want to clean up and tighten the ship down.
As an EVO 4G user I'd love to have the latest updates as soon as they are released by Google.
Who didn't see this coming? They differentiated themselves, gained enough marketshare and now want to clean up and tighten the ship down.
As an EVO 4G user I'd love to have the latest updates as soon as they are released by Google.
davmcn
Apr 25, 02:02 PM
This makes me laugh. A couple of months back people were complaining about suspicious information going out at random hours of the morning. Now we've just heard our iPhones/iPods are taking down our random locations, Coincidence ? :P
Multimedia
Jul 23, 08:28 PM
So you don't expect the Mac Pro at WWDC?? Or only a dual core version using Conroe?
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.Not really. Yorkfield is the 8 core follow on to Kentsfield in the Conroe class motherboard. Should be shipping by next Spring.So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.Given the above reasons, I expect it will be the former. The whole line will be Conroe based EXCEPT for the ONE top model which will be based on a Woodcrest MoBo etc so each time the top doubles it's core count from 4 to 8 then 16, the lower models double theirs from 2 to 4 then 8, all in less than a year from now.Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.I think it's safe to say we may witness the fastest acceleration in affordable computing power in the history of personal computing during this next year.
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.Not really. Yorkfield is the 8 core follow on to Kentsfield in the Conroe class motherboard. Should be shipping by next Spring.So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.Given the above reasons, I expect it will be the former. The whole line will be Conroe based EXCEPT for the ONE top model which will be based on a Woodcrest MoBo etc so each time the top doubles it's core count from 4 to 8 then 16, the lower models double theirs from 2 to 4 then 8, all in less than a year from now.Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.I think it's safe to say we may witness the fastest acceleration in affordable computing power in the history of personal computing during this next year.
Silentwave
Jul 15, 05:55 PM
Too many people are complaining about rumored information that isn't even reliable, and most likely incorrect.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
themoonisdown09
Apr 12, 07:07 AM
I just choked on my own vomit. I really want a new iPhone this summer.
bilbo--baggins
Aug 25, 05:04 PM
The PowerMac G5 I bought last year had a fan that constantly 'clicked'. It took several calls to AppleCare to get it sorted. Before you got anywhere you had to speak to someone that could barely speak English, who you had to humour by following their instructions to reboot the computer, reset PRAM etc. Then they wanted to have a company collect my Mac and take it away for repair. Only if you're really stubborn do you actually get them to send you the part to fit yourself. Even then they couldn't agree on whether the old fan needed to be returned. They took my credit card details in case I didn't return the old fan, then the info with the new fan told me I didn't need to return the old fan. Then I phoned them to clarify this, and they told me I must return the old fan or I would be charged. Totally baffled, I rang yet again and this time was assured that I didn't need to return it. Complete shambles.
It's irritating from a personal point of view. But what really disappoints me is that this is the kind of service new customers are getting. So much for the halo effect - apple are tarnishing it themselves. I'm a long time Apple fan and a few buffoons (who have probably only worked for Apple for a few months) won't begin to damage my loyalty. But can the same be said for first time iPod or Mac users?
It's irritating from a personal point of view. But what really disappoints me is that this is the kind of service new customers are getting. So much for the halo effect - apple are tarnishing it themselves. I'm a long time Apple fan and a few buffoons (who have probably only worked for Apple for a few months) won't begin to damage my loyalty. But can the same be said for first time iPod or Mac users?
NinjaHERO
Apr 25, 02:43 PM
Yet another reason for us to look at the "Loser Pays" legal system. Maybe it will stop some of this silliness.
MacRumors
Mar 31, 02:21 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/31/google-tightening-control-over-android-as-fragmentation-increases/)
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/03/31/152050-android_honeycomb_icon.jpg
lionel messi barcelona
Lionel Messi and Argentine
In This Photo: Lionel Messi,
goles y argentina Lionel
Lionel+messi+house+photos
contain Messi+argentina
#3 Lionel Messi (Argentina)
Lionel Messi-Messi-Barcelona-
Lionel Messi Home Jersey
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/03/31/152050-android_honeycomb_icon.jpg
zero2dash
Sep 18, 01:44 PM
Plenty of people ran NT on their desktops.
Admission of your mistakes is a good step in becoming a better person.
Key word being DESKTOPS.
MP machines were server based long before they were included in desktops. I'd like to see where people had dual Xeon based DESKTOPS 'cause I've never seen it. It's not impossible but it's also not a good cost-based answer either. :p
The server/desktop division with Windows - as with OS X - is one of marketing, not software. Windows "Workstation" and Windows "Server" use the same codebase.
I never said otherwise.
The hardware they run on is where it differentiates.
Most people/corporations run server-based OS on servers and workstation-based OS on desktops (or "workstations" in the business world). It's not impossible to run a server OS on a desktop or a workstation OS on a server but it is incredibly stupid.
Well, if you can't find evidence of Windows running on well on machine with >2 processors, or of the significant low-level changes Microsoft have made to ensure it does, you aren't looking very hard.
Bad dual core support? Citations please. I think this is a case where a Mac fan is simply speaking out of ignorance of their "enemy" platform.
I erronously bundled in "dual core" with "sketchy 64-bit support". Don't know why. From what I hear, 64-bit support in XP64 is sketchy because of device driver issues (and drivers not being natively 64-bit). I don't have any true 'dual core' systems myself but my P4 3.0C HT works fine in XP Pro. I apologize for lumping in "dual core" in.
Similarly, if you're one of the "Vista is just XP with a fancy skin" crowd, you've obviously not done much research. The changes in Vista are on par with the scale of changes Apple made to NeXT to get OS X.
User Account Protection is a big change. I've seen the list of "new features" and it doesn't do anything for me. UAP is nice...it's just really late. I'm sure there's changes "under the hood" like the ones implemented in XP sp2 to prevent buffer/stack overflows, etc. and I'm sure that's what you're referring to.
I think people who say stuff like that are exhibiting a syndrome common to Mac folk who've never spent any time in the PC world -- they take negative comments they remember regarding versions of Windows or the PC experience from about 5 years back and assume they apply to today. XP, for example, really was for the most part a window-dressing of Windows 2000, but that is not the case for Vista. You see similar statements regarding "blue screens of death", overall system stability, etc, which suggest they haven't seen or used a PC since the late 90s/early 00's.
So - are you inferring that Windows 2000 or Windows XP never blue screen? Because (if you are) that's a load of crap. I've seen blue screens in both OS's. Granted it's usually tied to hardware only, but it still happens. I've had an external USB drive blue screen in XP every time I turned it on, tried on 3 XP computers. Hardware fault, no doubt. Lately my HP Laptop dvd drive has been causing XP Pro to blue screen every other time I insert a dvd-r. Again - hardware fault.
Otherwise are both OS's stable? Damn straight. But problems do occur and I hope you're not suggesting otherwise. No OS is without its flaws.
Admission of your mistakes is a good step in becoming a better person.
Key word being DESKTOPS.
MP machines were server based long before they were included in desktops. I'd like to see where people had dual Xeon based DESKTOPS 'cause I've never seen it. It's not impossible but it's also not a good cost-based answer either. :p
The server/desktop division with Windows - as with OS X - is one of marketing, not software. Windows "Workstation" and Windows "Server" use the same codebase.
I never said otherwise.
The hardware they run on is where it differentiates.
Most people/corporations run server-based OS on servers and workstation-based OS on desktops (or "workstations" in the business world). It's not impossible to run a server OS on a desktop or a workstation OS on a server but it is incredibly stupid.
Well, if you can't find evidence of Windows running on well on machine with >2 processors, or of the significant low-level changes Microsoft have made to ensure it does, you aren't looking very hard.
Bad dual core support? Citations please. I think this is a case where a Mac fan is simply speaking out of ignorance of their "enemy" platform.
I erronously bundled in "dual core" with "sketchy 64-bit support". Don't know why. From what I hear, 64-bit support in XP64 is sketchy because of device driver issues (and drivers not being natively 64-bit). I don't have any true 'dual core' systems myself but my P4 3.0C HT works fine in XP Pro. I apologize for lumping in "dual core" in.
Similarly, if you're one of the "Vista is just XP with a fancy skin" crowd, you've obviously not done much research. The changes in Vista are on par with the scale of changes Apple made to NeXT to get OS X.
User Account Protection is a big change. I've seen the list of "new features" and it doesn't do anything for me. UAP is nice...it's just really late. I'm sure there's changes "under the hood" like the ones implemented in XP sp2 to prevent buffer/stack overflows, etc. and I'm sure that's what you're referring to.
I think people who say stuff like that are exhibiting a syndrome common to Mac folk who've never spent any time in the PC world -- they take negative comments they remember regarding versions of Windows or the PC experience from about 5 years back and assume they apply to today. XP, for example, really was for the most part a window-dressing of Windows 2000, but that is not the case for Vista. You see similar statements regarding "blue screens of death", overall system stability, etc, which suggest they haven't seen or used a PC since the late 90s/early 00's.
So - are you inferring that Windows 2000 or Windows XP never blue screen? Because (if you are) that's a load of crap. I've seen blue screens in both OS's. Granted it's usually tied to hardware only, but it still happens. I've had an external USB drive blue screen in XP every time I turned it on, tried on 3 XP computers. Hardware fault, no doubt. Lately my HP Laptop dvd drive has been causing XP Pro to blue screen every other time I insert a dvd-r. Again - hardware fault.
Otherwise are both OS's stable? Damn straight. But problems do occur and I hope you're not suggesting otherwise. No OS is without its flaws.
Earendil
Jun 8, 07:03 PM
But I guess if it's the only electronics store in a particular town...
That's me!
Nearest Apple Store is 90 minutes away. Nearest Authorized AT&T store that would carry the iPhone is like 60. Radio shack is just 10 minutes.
I'm wondering though, what would be the advantages/disadvantages to buying it at Radio Shack vs AT&T vs The Apple Store? Once I have the item purchased, will I notice any sort of difference what-so-ever?
Cheers.
That's me!
Nearest Apple Store is 90 minutes away. Nearest Authorized AT&T store that would carry the iPhone is like 60. Radio shack is just 10 minutes.
I'm wondering though, what would be the advantages/disadvantages to buying it at Radio Shack vs AT&T vs The Apple Store? Once I have the item purchased, will I notice any sort of difference what-so-ever?
Cheers.
Peterkro
May 1, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fivepoint
"I wonder what it would be like to go through life looking for racism around every corner? Constantly seeing the world in these glasses would have to be very tiresome and frustrating. Pretty sad really. People need to stop thinking about themselves and others as being members of groups, and start thinking of everyone as individuals. We're a society of individuals, we get our rights and our liberties as individuals, not because we're part of group A or group B.
If liberals would stop 'crying wolf' ('claiming racism') at every corner, we might actually take them seriously and help out when there's actual evidence."
I wonder what it's like to go through life blinded to the racism that occurs right through the entire U.S. social and governmental systems. I also note that most of those spouting "individualism" tend to be the very ones who rely on the "but we are Americans" argument how can you be individualist and a nationalist at the same time?
(this is not to say racism isn't rampant in most countries including the U.K. but maybe not to the same extent)
P.S. I am not nor ever will be a bloody "liberal".
Originally Posted by fivepoint
"I wonder what it would be like to go through life looking for racism around every corner? Constantly seeing the world in these glasses would have to be very tiresome and frustrating. Pretty sad really. People need to stop thinking about themselves and others as being members of groups, and start thinking of everyone as individuals. We're a society of individuals, we get our rights and our liberties as individuals, not because we're part of group A or group B.
If liberals would stop 'crying wolf' ('claiming racism') at every corner, we might actually take them seriously and help out when there's actual evidence."
I wonder what it's like to go through life blinded to the racism that occurs right through the entire U.S. social and governmental systems. I also note that most of those spouting "individualism" tend to be the very ones who rely on the "but we are Americans" argument how can you be individualist and a nationalist at the same time?
(this is not to say racism isn't rampant in most countries including the U.K. but maybe not to the same extent)
P.S. I am not nor ever will be a bloody "liberal".
heehee
Aug 26, 04:53 PM
Can't wait unti it comes out. My "work" is getting me a Mac Pro, but I want to wait until this comes out and decide if i should get the Mac Pro or the new Macbook Pro. :cool:
svenas1
Jul 15, 04:55 AM
The thing that perplexes me is the relocation of the Power Supply to the top. This is either bogus info or they know something they aren't letting on about all the Liquid Cooling problems that have been arising lately in the repair world.
Plus would this not put a strain on the power cord since the cord would have its own weight hanging down on it instead of how it currently comes out of the back of the tower and immediately lays on the floor or desk surface? Something's fishy about this.
what if the plug is still at the bottom, and the connection to the actual power unit is internal? high voltage connection through the case innards - is that possible ?
Plus would this not put a strain on the power cord since the cord would have its own weight hanging down on it instead of how it currently comes out of the back of the tower and immediately lays on the floor or desk surface? Something's fishy about this.
what if the plug is still at the bottom, and the connection to the actual power unit is internal? high voltage connection through the case innards - is that possible ?
grue
Apr 12, 12:56 AM
I like Motion, just wish the timeline was a little better.
People actually use Motion, for actual work?
Motion is a lot like After Effects, if After Effects' mom got drunk, did some crank and tossed herself down a flight of stairs every Friday night during her pregnancy, and then delivered a breech baby with the cord wrapped around its neck.
and then dropped it.
twice.
People actually use Motion, for actual work?
Motion is a lot like After Effects, if After Effects' mom got drunk, did some crank and tossed herself down a flight of stairs every Friday night during her pregnancy, and then delivered a breech baby with the cord wrapped around its neck.
and then dropped it.
twice.
SandynJosh
Mar 31, 10:40 PM
Thats not at all what this article is saying. The Android project is still going to be "open source".
Uh, yeah...and all animals are equal, but pigs are more equal.
Uh, yeah...and all animals are equal, but pigs are more equal.
ellsworth
Apr 5, 04:48 PM
Would be grand if all this hype was for iMovie. :)
REDolution
Apr 10, 07:34 AM
Well I bet they handle Formats differently.
Gone is Pulldown. Gone is Film Support...replaced with the best web movie rendering support in the industry. Also Apple will change the antiquated delivery method for productions. Once your done you publish to the itunes store and you have now distributed your movie. The interface will be a multitrack version of iMovie. From watching this clip and all the industry big wigs saying "its wonderful" Ya its great but in a different way ... because whats going to be released is not FCP studio 4. I'm sure its a whole new thing. So all the iMovie 7 users who had to keep using it because iMovie 8 was a total re-write because of no legacy no pluggin support will happen to FC Editors. This will force Editors who use Studio 3 to continue to use S3 until they build up the features of this "new" editor. Its going to be a very interesting NAB. Avid and Premiere are going to gain a lot of new friends if this is true. But the larger batch of new editors who really could care less about 99% of what this small market needs will be very happy. I also bet the price is quite a bit lower as well.
This will be the everything is gone and changed upgrade.
Are you speculating or have you just disobeyed your NDA? ;-)
Gone is Pulldown. Gone is Film Support...replaced with the best web movie rendering support in the industry. Also Apple will change the antiquated delivery method for productions. Once your done you publish to the itunes store and you have now distributed your movie. The interface will be a multitrack version of iMovie. From watching this clip and all the industry big wigs saying "its wonderful" Ya its great but in a different way ... because whats going to be released is not FCP studio 4. I'm sure its a whole new thing. So all the iMovie 7 users who had to keep using it because iMovie 8 was a total re-write because of no legacy no pluggin support will happen to FC Editors. This will force Editors who use Studio 3 to continue to use S3 until they build up the features of this "new" editor. Its going to be a very interesting NAB. Avid and Premiere are going to gain a lot of new friends if this is true. But the larger batch of new editors who really could care less about 99% of what this small market needs will be very happy. I also bet the price is quite a bit lower as well.
This will be the everything is gone and changed upgrade.
Are you speculating or have you just disobeyed your NDA? ;-)
bibbz
Jun 9, 11:41 PM
You mean Wal-Mart or something else? I've never heard of Wally World. Is that a chain back east? :confused:
Walmart, lol
Walmart, lol
DrJohnnyN
Apr 8, 08:12 AM
Slick move, Best Buy.
Hurda
Apr 27, 08:38 AM
"Calculating a phone's location using just GPS satellite data can take up to several minutes."
Then how is car-navigation working?
Apple - Locating different :D:apple:
Then how is car-navigation working?
Apple - Locating different :D:apple:
Abstract
Aug 12, 01:35 AM
What OS will the iPhone be running? :confused:
Mac OS Kitten.
Mac OS Kitten.
fivepoint
Apr 28, 07:52 AM
I lost it a long time ago. Trump is an asshat that should just shut the **** up and go back to diddling eastern european models and building casinos (is that christian right compliant I wonder?).
The truth is if Barack Obama was instead Piers Morgan or Simon Cowell and a republican candidate, there would have been an uproar if anyone had dared to ask if they were actually Americans by birth. Its racism, period. The right doesn't want a liberool n***** in the white house. That is it in the ****ing list. Anyone saying that's not what this is about is a ****ing liar.
Most liberals wouldn't know racism if it bit them in the ass. Are conservatives racist against Col. Allen West? Herman Cain? Colin Powell? Condoleza? Cosby? Step out of your little fairytale world and realize that we've have the same issues with a white Barack Obama. If Hillary was in office, she'd be getting raked over the coals just as hard. Similarly, if Allen West was president he'd be getting viciously attacked by the left. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with policy. It has everything to do with reality. If tomorrow Barack Obama turned into a conservative constitutionalist aiming to reduce government involvement in our lives, reducing taxes, reducing deficits, etc. all these same 'RACISTS' as you so conveniently label them would be singing his praises.
Then again, its easier for you to just earn some cheap political points by demonizing your opponents... so, carry on.
Right, you typically dig through government documents looking for goofy layers (or object) and you're just asking questions about this one document which happens to prove that Obama was born in the United States.
What I find remarkable is you were one of the ones arguing that all Obama has to do is show the long-form document and now that the White House has, you're still arguing about the document. It's a fair question to wonder why there are layers in a document, but you can't honestly say that such a question doesn't lead down a path that would logically come to the conclusion that a document was a forgery.
It seems like it changes depending on the settings and edition of Creative Suite you have.
Yeah it does. ;)
Those hypotheticals make for easy arguments. You do have a bias against Obama and you should just admit it. When a document comes around that runs counter to your worldview make sure you ask the same kinds of questions.
Your problem, Hulugu, just like other liberals in this forum blinded by their own bias, is that you decided what I was trying to do before I even did it. I clearly stated my point, I clearly stated I was not a birther, I clearly stated that I had advocated the documents release, I clearly stated I hoped it would shut the issue down for several reasons including the fact that it's a political loser for my side of the aisle... and yet what do you and the others do? Claim that I AM a birther, claim that I'm GLAD there was something odd about the document, claim that my attempt to get someone to clear up the confusion and give the 'simple explanation' was actually a veiled attempt to prove Obama was a Kenyan.
Sad, pathetic, misguided, and further proof that this forum has a distinct in ability to produce meaningful conversation without hate, vitriol, and meaninglessly misguided attacks. Enjoy.
The truth is if Barack Obama was instead Piers Morgan or Simon Cowell and a republican candidate, there would have been an uproar if anyone had dared to ask if they were actually Americans by birth. Its racism, period. The right doesn't want a liberool n***** in the white house. That is it in the ****ing list. Anyone saying that's not what this is about is a ****ing liar.
Most liberals wouldn't know racism if it bit them in the ass. Are conservatives racist against Col. Allen West? Herman Cain? Colin Powell? Condoleza? Cosby? Step out of your little fairytale world and realize that we've have the same issues with a white Barack Obama. If Hillary was in office, she'd be getting raked over the coals just as hard. Similarly, if Allen West was president he'd be getting viciously attacked by the left. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with policy. It has everything to do with reality. If tomorrow Barack Obama turned into a conservative constitutionalist aiming to reduce government involvement in our lives, reducing taxes, reducing deficits, etc. all these same 'RACISTS' as you so conveniently label them would be singing his praises.
Then again, its easier for you to just earn some cheap political points by demonizing your opponents... so, carry on.
Right, you typically dig through government documents looking for goofy layers (or object) and you're just asking questions about this one document which happens to prove that Obama was born in the United States.
What I find remarkable is you were one of the ones arguing that all Obama has to do is show the long-form document and now that the White House has, you're still arguing about the document. It's a fair question to wonder why there are layers in a document, but you can't honestly say that such a question doesn't lead down a path that would logically come to the conclusion that a document was a forgery.
It seems like it changes depending on the settings and edition of Creative Suite you have.
Yeah it does. ;)
Those hypotheticals make for easy arguments. You do have a bias against Obama and you should just admit it. When a document comes around that runs counter to your worldview make sure you ask the same kinds of questions.
Your problem, Hulugu, just like other liberals in this forum blinded by their own bias, is that you decided what I was trying to do before I even did it. I clearly stated my point, I clearly stated I was not a birther, I clearly stated that I had advocated the documents release, I clearly stated I hoped it would shut the issue down for several reasons including the fact that it's a political loser for my side of the aisle... and yet what do you and the others do? Claim that I AM a birther, claim that I'm GLAD there was something odd about the document, claim that my attempt to get someone to clear up the confusion and give the 'simple explanation' was actually a veiled attempt to prove Obama was a Kenyan.
Sad, pathetic, misguided, and further proof that this forum has a distinct in ability to produce meaningful conversation without hate, vitriol, and meaninglessly misguided attacks. Enjoy.